The Serpent Forum

Gabe S · Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 33 Location: Yorktown, VA

Anyone play serpent or ophicleide at a tubachristmas event? It'd be great to have some pic's up on the website from them. I usually play serpent at the one at the Kennedy Center in DC and in Richmond and Newport News VA. I sat next to Bob Pallanche (on ophicleide) last year at the Kennedy Center.
Gabe
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J. Gabriel Stone

Richard_Cane · Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject:

I would like to but don't think my chops are good enough yet. Plus, I am getting my wisdom teeth out the week before which means it for sure won't happen this year.
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Home made fiberglass mishmash copy of an anonymous 19th century church serpent in C including including parts from a guitar and the kitchen sink.

paulschmidt · Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 44

While I have taken serpent to some TubaChristmas events by invitation from the organizers, I usually prefer to take an ophicleide instead. I want to feel that i am contributing musically, not just visually, and a serpent is truely useless in a large ensemble of tubas. At least an ophicleide contibutes as much as any euphonium. Besides not contributing, a serpent is just awful to play when the player cannot hear the sounds being produced by his instrument, and more than a few tubas will really drown out the serpent timbre...the player will have no idea which note they are blowing and has to hope for the best. Some smaller TubaChristmas events I attend annually have started to request that I bring both serpent and ophicleide, with the serpent used for a separate demo for the other participants during rehearsal, and sometime for a brief demonstration solo in between carols in the main event, but never as part of the regular music. Of course, I know people who just like to show up and show off the serpent regardless of whether it is musically useful.
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Gabe S · Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 33 Location: Yorktown, VA

At the Kennedy Center TubaChristmas...no individual can be heard, there is something like 400 players there. (I bet a lot of last chair-inside desk violists feel the same way-but they were hired for the job!) Most large ensemble performances like TubaCristmas become a "blast fest" for the young players, and an event to see old friends for the rest of us. Despite the best efforts of the directors (Col. Bryan Shelborne and Harvey Phillips in DC) it's bound to happen. Despite the best efforts of the sousaphones and marhing baritones, I can still play in tune.

There is always a good contingent of rarities there...several Ophicleides, Serpents, Double bell eupher's, saxhorns, cimbassi, helicons, and lots of "franken-tubas." This is one of the few times when younger players (as well as audience members) will be exposed to the historical and rare instruments, and they get alot out of it-heard or not. The number of questions one gets to answer spark interest. If there is interest there will always be an audience. Seeing as I make my living playing early music, I can always use an audience-You get them however you can. This kind of exposure does not cheapen the experience.

On the musical side to that, though, you get to dispell alot of myths that our instruments cannot be played...much less in tune!

Everyone that plays in an ensemble is important, whether their voice is heard above the din, or whether it blends with everyone else. I encourage you all to bring your horns to a gathering, listen carefully, and play beautifully!
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J. Gabriel Stone

Paul Horner · Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 11 Location: NC

There is a "serpents" picture from the 2007 Columbus, NC TubaChristmas posted on Russ Kaisers website (see the member directory for a link). In his site, pick the "News" tab, and scroll down.

J.c. Sherman · Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Cleveland, USA

Drives me crazy that I can never seam to get to these events; they're always on top of paying gigs!

Still hopefull, though!

J.c.S.

J.c. Sherman · Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Cleveland, USA

While I haven't made it to a Tuba Xmas in years, there's a "Summer Tubas" production which is run by Tucker Jolly, the terrific tubist with the Akron Symphony and Akron University, on June 8, 2008. His Tuba Xmas regularly draws 400+ players, and this should be great fun (though not as big!). My student is bringing a weird 4v King Eb Tuba we made, and I'll have the Ophicleide. Hopefully, next time I'll have something more interesting (heh, heh...)

J.c.S.

paulschmidt · Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 44

In answer to Gabe's post and to clarify my own earlier one on this subject, I was not trying to say that the serpent should not be used DURING a TubaChristmas event on account of its low volume. What I WAS asserting is that a serpentist truely cannot tell what he is playing when surrounded by tubas, and this can be very frustrating. The player can be totally off in terms of pitch and would not be able to tell. If he plays an ophicleide or a modern low brass, he will at least hear enough of his own sound to know that he is playing correctly, even if his individual sound contributes to the overall din in insignificant ways. Personally, I would HATE to sit there being only eye candy AND not even knowing if I was playing the right note. I have experimented with serpent in ensemble with other modern brass groups, and find that I can be quite far off in pitch, and not hear it, not even a beat frequency. Playing with a modern brass mouthpiece would give the sound more edge and make it slightly easier to hear.

This is why I limit my serpent playing at these events to solo demonstrations, either in the rehearsal for the benefit of other players, or during the program if the organizers agree to make room in between other numbers.

However, if anyone else wants to show up with a serpent and not contribute musically, by playing it en masse, it is not my place to say them nay.

I have discussed this issue with Harvey at various events over the years, and he seemed to feel the same way I do. But he feels stringly that nobody be told NO, leaving the issue of what to play up to the individual player.

I just opened my 2008 TubaChristmas season with the performance in Indianapolis, and Harvey was nice enough to ask me to play a solo on ophicleide during the program, and that went well. I could have taken the serpent as well and he probably would have asked me to play that as well.

BUT, consider that we are trying to better the public opinion of the serpent, so bear in mind that unless you can play in tune with a good sound, you should think twice about putting yourself in a position where you would be playing solo serpent in mixed public events, especially if they are broadcast. By MIXED, I mean venues where the audience is not already familiar with the serpent and its shortcomings. Lots of people will have negative views reinforced. Playing at an early brass workshop is quite another matter, since those in attendance probably understand the difficulty and probably have already heard examples of good playing, and will be able to distinguish a beginner's playing from what is possible.
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Gabe S · Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 33 Location: Yorktown, VA

I had another wonderful year of serpenting at TubaChristmas. It is always great to talk with young musicians about the art of brass playing. So many young musicians think that a tuba or euph plays in tune by pushing buttons and blowing hard. I think they can appreciate the listening skills needed after hearing an instrument such as ours played in tune! I still think that every player performing adds to the ensemble regardless of weather or not they can be heard "above" the group... I encourage you all to participate in whatever way you think best, blend, and play pretty!

I do agree that we should make sure that you are playing proficiently and are not encouraging negative miscomceptions about our instrument. practice hard, play in tune!
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J. Gabriel Stone

J.c. Sherman · Joined: 05 Mar 2007 Posts: 22 Location: Cleveland, USA

paulschmidt · Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 44

After the initial exchanges on the subject of playing serpent in masses of modern low brasses, I revisited the forum today and saw that there was still a misunderstanding of the point I was trying to make. Since I feel that the point is rather important, I will try again to clarify what I meant in my original posting.

Gabe Stone seems to interpret me as asserting that the serpent should not be used in a TubaChristmas, or similar event, because the player cannot be heard in 'the mix' of sound produced by the ensemble.

This is not what I was trying to say. I was asserting that, based on my own experiences, the player of a serpent in such a situation has a hard time hearing his own sound, and as such cannot be sure if he is playing the right pitch. Obviously a more proficient player will be thinking, and hence producing, the right buzz with his embochure, and therefore the serpent will at least be close to the right pitch. However, also based on my own experience, when I cannot hear myself play in such a large ensemble din, some others nearby claim to be able to hear my sound, at least a little bit. My fear is that less experienced players, who really do need to hear themselves in order to play correctly, might end up in such a playing situation, and be honkling away without realizing that they are off pitch, even though some others nearby might be hearing some of the bad sound and hence getting a bad feeling about the serpent.

The other thing I was trying to say is that most musicians want to be contributing. Even though a single voice in a good ensemble cannot usually be picked out from the overall sound, it is still important that that single voice be maiking the right sound. Even a buried sound, or a sound otherwise lost in the blend, will have a negative contributiion to the outcome if it is not in tune or is otherwise doing something wrong. Many people who play or sing in groups of lower quality disbelieve this assertion, but musicians in accomplished groups know that it is fact true...that's how those groups get to be accomplished in thh first place, by sweating the details that other groups might think are insignificant. As a musician who plays in some outstanding groups (albeit on modern instruments), I have a hard time participating in public music making situations if I think my own contribution is somehow faulty. It makes me uneasy! I can play serpent well enough to know that I can contribute positively in those situation I currently play in, but I have to scale back my expecations for some situations. Even though I have a good sense of pitch, I also know that I can still be off, especially if the whole ensemble is not playing well together with good intonation...I am always adjusting my own pitch to try and make the ensemble tuning better, and in the course of doing so might actually be playing at some pitch that is not in tune, at least not according to a standard reference.

In a TubaChristmas, there are lots of young people, as well as adults who only play AT TubaChristmasses, or who otherwise are not well developed as players. They are the ones who try to play louder and louder so that they can hear themselves. They are the ones playing in the wrong key, or out of tune, or out of time. However, they can often be influenced positively by being near to a better player. Not every beginner will understand this, and they might assume that they are the one who is right , and sort of delibgerately disregard the in-tune sounds coming from the better player. But many more will tend to latch onto the better players who are playing with confidence, at least partially matching their pitch and rhythm.

My assertion is that a serpent, when used in a TubaChristmas, has the following attributes:

- the serpentist may well not be able to hear himself well enough to correctly adjust and play the right pitch...this may seem to be insignificant, but it can diminish the overall sound in small ways, and can negatively influence the opinions of others nearby who might be able to hear wrong notes, and certainly (if being played off pitch) will not be useful to beginner tubists nearby who could use the more assertive sound of a more refined brass instrument to follow
- the serpentinst, if not advanced enough to play confidently in such challenging situations, has a good chance of negatively influencing the opinion of the serpent in the minds of other players and the listening public
- the serpent can be educational and generally interesting to the other players and the public is taken along to such events, but in my opinion would be better used in demonstrations as opposed to in ensemble
- the serpentist may become discouraged at feeling like he is not contributing positively

Most beginning serpent players end up playing in isolation. If they are lucky they can get to a workshop to occasionaly play with other serpents or early instruments. Their best bet for advancement in their skills would be to play regularly in ensemble, but that ensemble should be one where the player as well as others in the ensemble, can hear the serpent sound. This benefits the skills of the player and helps the ensemble integrate the serpent's sound into their own for best effect. For this to work (excluding solo situations for the serpent), the ensemble should be small and have a light sound. A TubaChristmas is at the opposite end of the spectum from this optimal emsemble. I would rather see beginner serpentists hone their skills in chamber music situation, only taking the serpents into more challenging situations once they have the skill and confidence to do so productively (and yet unobtrusively/harmlessly). All over the Western world are chamber ensembles such as this...they are called recorder groups, and in Europe and the USA, at least, they are plentiful in all but the most remote regions. The players in such groups are not usually so accomplished that they would find even a beginning serpentist to be a hindrance. I was welcomed into such a group (a local chapter of the American Recorder Society) early on in 1990, and playing with them helped my serpent playing immensely. Furthermore, the music played by a bass recorder is perfectly suited to the serpent, and the light sound of a serpent that is not being overblown actually blends well in any recorder group where there are multiple recorders on a part.

I understand that the recorder band and the tuba band are two different things, and that is part of my overall point....one is a good place for a serpent to play and the other is not.

Still, this does not mean that a serpentist who has a reasonable level of proficiency cannot show up at a TubaChristmas. Nobody will tell them not to, and since the resulting rumpus of most such events is actually pretty poor quality, it will not hurt TOO much. But it certainly will not contribute in any meaningful way, and there are better playing situations out there for our instrument.
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Paul Schmidt
editor, Serpent Newsletter
webmaster, Serpentwebsite.com